Hello, Ian. You were appointed as chair of the G15 in the summer; how have you found that role so far? And what are your hopes for it?

I started on the first of June as chair, having been vice chair for two years, working and watching Fiona Fletcher Smith do a very, very good job of that. So, my teacher was a very skilled and talented woman. 

You may have noticed there was a Comprehensive Spending Review in June, so that kicked off a whole load of work. Generally for the sector it was really good news; a real sense that the government had listened to us and was responding to the genuine issues that we faced, and the challenges, and trying to be helpful and supportive so that we might play a role in supporting them. So I think that it was good and bad. It was good because it generated a sense of optimism and a sense that we were working collaboratively and constructively in a way which, if I'm honest, we hadn't for the last previous few years. It was bad because it meant that there was a whole heap of work (laughs) as chair of the G15 to coordinate responses, to calibrate how we all felt about it, and to articulate that, and to stay engaged in some of the detail as we start to do that. So: policy and politically and in terms of our own organisations, really good news; in terms of my workload and inbox, slightly challenging! 

How do you assess where we are currently in what we call the housing crisis – what everybody calls the housing crisis...? 

Yes, well, crises, almost, isn't it? I think we're in a really difficult place. And I think in the short term, if I'm honest, it's probably going to get worse… 

…Because?

…Well, because the amount of building is falling off a cliff; the symbiotic relationship that we have with housebuilders, Section 106, is under strain because the underlying demand that they need and that we ultimately benefit from as well isn't there. Because the interest rates are proving to be more stubborn than any of us anticipated they would be, and the general macro-economic environment is more difficult.

And we have a huge inbox of regulation to implement and manage, which will probably rightly, but inevitably, at the expense of new build, have us focused on our existing stock and our existing services, and we've definitely gone too far in the other direction previously. But you do worry that at the moment there is a danger that we are too internally focused, I think.

So, I think the immediate signs – with demand, with temporary housing costs going up and supply going down – it's very difficult to imagine that that's going to get better anytime soon. I think that, long-term, with the arrangements the government have probably got it right, but they need the economy to help a bit as well, and interest rates to come down, and other things and demand to be generated. So, I think it will get worse, short term, but you can start to see that there is a brighter future in the long term.

What are the specific glimmers of light that you are clinging to? Are there any budgetary ones upcoming?

Well, it depends on the Budget, but the amount of money going into housing is a plus, I think. We're impoverished as organisations: one of the reasons that we really struggle at the moment is our interest cover is so historically, recklessly low, but you can see that getting better. You can see us reflating our business plans and getting back on top of it – there's lots of reasons for that. I think we own more taller buildings than any other landlord, so the cost of building remediation and the fact that social housing residents didn't have access to the building safety funds – we've spent £300 million on that. That all takes money, and that's on the back of an average renter, I don't know what it is, £137 a week, or something.

But with the interventions that have been made in that and in rent convergence and elsewhere, I can see a trajectory which slowly brings us back into a much more stable position, and a position where we can start to contribute more to the housing crisis. And we will be able to build more in the future. At the moment, that's still really challenging. But if you look at our business plan, and then you look at the business plans of other big HAs, you can start to see it does look quite helpful in the long term, and I think that's probably true of local authorities as well. Particularly in London; London is a peculiarity. I think it has been more harshly affected by a whole series of things: the Building Safety Segulator, which is causing problems – you can see that the leadership there is quite encouraging. You can see that getting better, we will get used to and settle down Awaab's law and all of the other complexities. So, you can see that, as we start to re-organise and re-calibrate our operating model, that all of that will get better. It's just how quickly, and our ability to respond to the immediate crisis.

So lastly, in terms of Peabody's work, how does that connect with the recent announcements on New Towns? And what is your feeling about all of that?

Well, that's a good question. I was at the New Towns launch yesterday. We've got Thamesmead, where we own 95 of the 100 hectares that's included within that bid for a New Town. It's got to be, right, hasn't it, that sort of large scale, ambitious [proposition]? My absolute hope is that that doesn't become politicised and become a political football. I think it's such a sensible piece of work. I was just looking at it, interestingly; there's very little in here to quibble with or argue with. And if we are going to build the homes that the country needs, with property developments here, and property developments there, that sort of ambition, my hope is that we're able to fully contribute to that, and we're in a position where we can. I mean, they're pretty clear, I think, about the delivery mechanisms, but given the singularity of ownership and the singularity of local authority involvement at Thamesmead, we would hope that we could offer an alternate way of doing that more elegantly, and more quickly than the Development Corporation sort of model, but let's see.

 

Brilliant. Thank you. That's probably up to time. So good luck with all of that, and good luck with G15. How long is your chairmanship?

Two years. Towards the end, Fiona was able to tell me, ‘Well, I've got 74 days left’ and I was thinking: you must be really looking forward to the end if you're counting them down! (laughs)

Notching the days off on the wall! Did she have any other tips for you?

No, she just said it'll take a lot more time than you imagine, because we haven't got an independent secretariat that supports it. We literally do it ourselves. And that’s certainly proven to be true.

I've always thought myself as being quite an internally focused chief executive. I'm not one of those that goes out and proselytises, or relishes the ambassadorial role that naturally comes with things. I've always spent more time internally, just sort of making the organisation better. So, it's been a bit of a surprise. But her words of advice on the amount of time have proven to be right, because I thought she was exaggerating, thinking it can't take that much. But it has and it is!

Well, in that case I had better let you get back to it! Thanks for your time!

Thank you, David.