David Taylor meets Mathieu (Mat) Proctor to find out about his work as head of urban design at HTA after moving from the GLA, his views on the state of the market and the prospects for New Towns and urban extensions

David Taylor 
Hi, Mat. You've been in post now at HTA for around nine months, having been at the GLA. How has that transition been for you?

Mathieu Proctor 
It's been good. I was at the GLA for six years, so it felt like a significant, sizable chunk of time, and the transition's been ‘energising’ – that would be the word I'd use. At the GLA I was leading the urban design team within the planning department. It was a very strategic-scale role – strategic urban design and shaping policy, helping boroughs, in terms of both reactive development management design work, but then also opportunity area planning frameworks and projects that they were doing within their own opportunity areas. Moving to HTA has allowed me to take that strategic experience most recently, and maybe make it sort of tangible. It's in a bit more delivery mode. And so, it's been good. Over my career, I've worked about 50/50, public and private, so it's not new, but it's refreshing to be back in the private sector.

David Taylor 
Do you feel there's more ‘zip’ in the private sector and more bureaucracy in the public? Is it as simple as that, or is there nuance to that?

Mathieu Proctor 
No, I wouldn't describe it as that. I'd say that in the public sector – and I've worked at Hounslow, Lewisham, Hackney for a bit, and the GLA – in all those roles, it has been working with really committed, hard-working, imaginative, creative people, throughout. What there is is a need to be transparent; there's a need to be absolutely clear and robust – not that we're not at HTA! (laughs)

David Taylor 
No! (laughs)

Mathieu Proctor 
There's a need to be accountable for absolutely everything. So, yes, when it comes to a sign-off for an idea, if you like, then that will take time, because it's got to go through – rightly – a proper process and protocol.

David Taylor 
Yes, that's what I meant by zip, I suppose: being released from that.

Mathieu Proctor 
Yes. I think it was in my first week at HTA that I had a decision that needed to be made; I kind of allowed two weeks for that, mentally – and it was made in about 10 seconds! It is quite, quite different. And the deadline is different as well, because clients have got expectations. Projects are much shorter. There's a weekly- or bi-weekly basis that you're working to a deadline which can be slightly more elongated in the public sector.

David Taylor 
What is your experience of planning departments? Are they as overburdened as we hear? And is it getting worse?

Mathieu Proctor 
I think it's probably a mixed picture; a bit patchy. Some local authorities are resourced in certain ways, or set up in certain ways, which means that perhaps they're better able to give attention to that more reactive, development management work. Or they've got certain priorities, which means that they've been given more resource to look at the more proactive plan-making or masterplanning projects, in which case I'd say that they are all overburdened. But then there are others where they've got a large volume of planning applications which might be quite busy; quite, you know, granular. And it can be difficult; it can be challenging. I don't quite know what happened, but in the planning profession you have a lot of young, positive, passionate planners, and then maybe a kind of top tier, and there's somewhere in the middle which seems to have gone, and that means you've got a lot of people being given a lot of responsibility quite early on. And in my experience, certainly at the GLA most recently, they're really rising to the challenge and doing incredible work. But I think that's something that wasn't necessarily the case when I started out 20-plus years ago. There's a lot being put on relatively junior officers, which is difficult.

David Taylor 
So, they're losing the middle-aged demographic, are they? Is that what's happening?

Mathieu Proctor 
Well, I haven't got the numbers in front of me, but I think at my level of experience, let's say – I'm in my late 40s now, and started out in the early noughties – it feels like maybe my cohort is smaller, or maybe people have shot to the top, and, the team-lead, middle management area can be a bit thin. Or maybe they're spread very thin. I had some great managers who were showing me what to do, how to do things, and things to be careful of, and it's quite one to one. I feel like maybe now it can be a little bit more distant, let's say.

David Taylor  
So: what drew you to HTA, how did that all happen, and what are you working on at the moment?

Mathieu Proctor 
I think their integrated practice, the fact that it is a truly multi-disciplinary practice, is really appealing - urban design, architecture, landscape planning, engagement, building, physics and environmental design. It is very compelling. My background is that I'm a bit of a jack-of-all-trades and have got experience and qualifications in all of those. And so, it felt like a good fit, but I have been given a remit. There already is and has been for a long time, an urban design team at HTA with a focus obviously on residential development, housing, a great legacy of that. And the question was put to me – or the challenge was put to me – could we go further? Could we look at other types of strategic-scale project? Could we look at town centres? Could we look at New Towns? Could we look at everything in between, if you like? It's more mixed use, and that seemed like a great challenge. So, the combination of being given that freedom to shape an offer with a practice that's got a great legacy, a great brand name, and the fact that I'm working on a daily basis for people from across the disciplines, is really exciting. It's also about 10 minutes’ walk from my house!

David Taylor 
(laughs)

Mathieu Proctor  
And I think also it's got a really lovely vibe to it – they're really nice people, who just want the best for the projects and for the people who work here; there's really a level of care, I think, for the staff, which is really nice. So, yes, great atmosphere, highly skilled, committed people, good projects, and hopefully some good projects to come.

David Taylor  
I was there at HTA's London office quite recently, leading a bike ride with James Lord and Simon Bayliss and a bunch of other HTA people and guests into Essex, and when we came back, it was a reminder of what a lovely office it is, and indeed, what a great canteen and cooking setup you've got there as well, by the by!

Mathieu Proctor  
Isn't it? When I tell people about that they cannot believe that still happens. I mean, it's something from the past, isn't it? The staff canteen! Amazing!

David Taylor  
Yeah, incredible, and great food. So: what are you working on?

Mathieu Proctor  
I'm working on a few major projects that are taking up a good amount of my time. I'm working on a study around Greenwich Peninsula, which is an opportunity area with good transport access, so something I have experience of. We are looking at what could be delivered in the short, medium and long-term, and working with HTA's demonstrable experience of deliverable, viable housing typologies.
 
So that's been one thing. We’re also involved in a major project on the edge of the capital, exploring how to shape sustainable growth in a sensitive landscape context. It’s a large greenfield site with complex environmental constraints, but also real potential to create new schools, public spaces, and connections. A key part of the work has been transforming what might otherwise be seen as a barrier into a distinctive landscape feature and amenity, while promoting active travel and reducing car dependency in a more suburban setting. The site’s scale and topography make it a fascinating place to work.
 
We're working at Meridian Water a bit; again, another sort of masterplan refresh. You know, things have changed with the second stair, changing cost and so on. So, [it’s about] what might be possible on a couple of the later phases at Meridian Water, and maybe rethinking how that might be, the kind of uses that might go there. Some interesting thoughts around events and so on, as well as lots of new homes and green infrastructure.
 
Something else I'd like to mention is beyond individual projects. We're looking at our capabilities within the urban design team and what our USP might be, or what our method might be, and how that might connect to, but expand on, HTA's existing residential offer. I've been developing my skills and experience in data science and GIS, and so we're looking at how we might offer more data-driven evidence work for local authorities, or developers. Certainly, I think there's an opportunity with local plan evidence: there's a bit of a deadline on that, with the government putting rocket boosters on local authorities to use local plans within certain time frames. And how might we help with the production of evidence base, which might be around density, it might be around capacity, it might be around kind of Environmental Design Review and what we can bring in terms of new dashboards and making new stakeholders they might already have in the local authority, so it's useful and robust in an examination.

David Taylor
Brilliant. Last couple of questions, because we're coming up to time. How do you gauge the current climate for development in London? And perhaps you could reflect on the recent New Towns announcements? What is the scope for New Towns, and where are we within in terms of the market and the housing crisis, would you say? And indeed, what are the glimpses of light that you can see, if you can?


Mathieu Proctor  
So, it's a tough market; that's not new news. High costs, some uncertainty, slightly shifting national policy – obviously, the GLA made an announcement earlier last week, so there is change. But it's also, I think, a moment for innovation, the New Towns being a good example of that. I thought privately, or, you know, to anyone who asked me: What do I think? I did a bit of work on this, with the GLA. It was always my take that you weren't really going to see an entirely new Milton Keynes or Runcorn or Harlow from this latest round of announcements. I know that Milton Keynes is in the mix, and Upper Hayford and so on, which are arguably - certainly Upper Hayford – a kind of new settlement. But it felt to me it was going to be much more about urban extensions or making use of what we've already got. So, the Brabazon development in Bristol or Thamesmead in London was much more, I think, what I expected.

Mathieu Proctor  
And that's eminently sensible, isn't it?

Mathieu Proctor  
Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's more achievable, the kind of pump's already primed, to a certain extent in terms of the planning context, you know, there's landowners or developers on board who are good to go…

David Taylor  
Infrastructure…

Mathieu Proctor  
…Yes, infrastructure, exactly. I think it was interesting – I've not read the details, so you'll actually know more than me – but it was an announcement from Rachel Reeves yesterday, or the day before, about Green Book provisions. There was a note about Liverpool; I've not looked into it, but I think having worked at length on either Bakerloo Line Extension and or the DLR extension in particular, with the OPF at Thamesmead and the Royal Docks, so that particular project, getting those things across the line and understanding the importance of that infrastructure to creating dense new development where we need it is vital. And you know, actually, we described Thamesmead and Beckton Riverside as New Towns, way before the Labour government came in, we were talking about them as new towns. So, making use of existing infrastructure, extending infrastructure as well, is absolutely vital, and I hope that there's not a rush for speed, and a rush for headlines which sees us creating more car-dependent, more isolated development than if we'd been a bit more methodical, and there had been upfront investment in mass transit. I mean, that's got to be the answer.
I thought it was an interesting offer that North Liverpool, or Liverpool gave for the north of the city, around the Everton stadium, as that being seen as a New Town. It's got, you know, the Mersey Rail, it's got this new stadium. You know, it's got the ‘bones’. And I thought that was a really interesting proposition. And I wonder in the next round, because let's not forget, this is just the first round of New Towns, if we could see a bit more joined up urban regen, brownfield and New Town thinking, I think would be great. It would be a great opportunity.

David Taylor  
Absolutely! Well, thank you for your time, Mat. That was great.

Mathieu Proctor 
Cheers, David!