Hi Catherine. How are you doing?  

 

Pretty well, thank you. Surviving the cold! How are you?

 

I'm very good. Also warming up! 

I wanted to talk to you about the report that you have just released: 'The Magnetic Workplace', which I think looks across a number of geographies, including the UK, Australia, US, China and Singapore, to determine the future as regards how we are working. Is that a decent summary at least of its scope? And also, what are the key findings of this report? 

 

Yeah, absolutely. We've run this survey now for three years in a row, over a very unpredictable time, I guess, in the world of workplace. We're looking at taking this global perspective to really find the links between us all. I suppose we've named it this year ‘The Magnetic Workplace’ because there's a lot of talk about attraction, retention, and how do we get that magnetic factor back into our work, so that ultimately, we can start to do work better? So yes, we have a range of key findings and they've evolved throughout the years. I think an evolution from last year is that, really, hybrid is here to stay. We're now a little bit more certain about that than we were perhaps in the last year. Some of the other findings speak to policies that organizations have been developing. We know now that if you force people to come back, they'll leave the office. So, we don't want to hear about mandatory Mondays anymore.  And I guess another key one is: what is attracting people back to the office? We all know that the world of the home is very much blended into the way the office might look and feel and the way you experience it. But what are those other key amenities that might actually serve as some value when we work?

 

And what is the key attractor? What is the best magnet to attract people? I mean, I thought that 'other people' might be quite high on the list in terms of the social aspect. Is that covered?

 

No doubt, no doubt. And I think what's quite funny is that the top of the list, as in the most wanted feature that I might want to see my workplace when it is safe to return has always been free food! (laughs)

 

Yeah, I saw that! That's extraordinary! Who actually offers that? I've never seen that. (laughs)

 

Yeah, I mean, it's probably not as uncommon as you might think, generally trending towards larger organizations, mainly organizations that have a bit of a global reach and might work across several time zones. But I think what's underneath that is exactly what you just touched on: the people factor. You know, maybe it's not so fun to eat lunch by yourself at home every day. But actually, when we do come into the workplace, it's a chance to actually sit down for a meal with people; break away from your desk. And I think what's behind that is the more interesting thing. So: we've got to unpick why that's been the top of the list for a while. And then, apart from that, there's a lot of qualities of buildings that I think give us a steer as well to feature or rejuvenate in developments. So: fresh air from outside, gardens and green spaces. People actually wanting environmental sustainability to be at the heart of their workplace is also up there. And no doubt good coffee...

 

And the environmental sustainability aspect is also a sort of branding thing, right? People want to be associated with a company that does the right thing, in that sense. Is that fair?

 

Yes, definitely. I think what we're seeing is that I guess it's that whole treating the organization that you work for as really a direct link to your personal values and ethics. And where you stand in the world. And I think that kind of blending is maybe how we don't need to work for work’s sake anymore. But we do it as part of our lives. I think although there has been this blend of work and life, it's done probably with a bit more values and ethics at the heart of it. And I think it's such a positive thing to see that really high up there on the list. It will only push private organizations even further in that, and they're the ones that can do a lot of benefit.

 

Were you surprised, as I was, at how low on-site childcare figured in the list? And did that point to any geographical differences? Also, were there any geographical differences in terms of attitude in different countries?

 

Yeah, they certainly were. And the nice thing was that now that we have this data is that we can break it down per region that we looked at, and we can also look at it globally. So actually, we have those figures globally and locally for London. Yeah, childcare I think has always been one of those. I think there's a recognition that it's not often a workplace that might provide that function, but maybe it's where that workplace is located. And I think one of the interesting things when we start to say, look for buildings for organizations is, is there a good level of neighborhood amenity around that workplace? So, I think the choice of where you might be moving to, or if you're even personally changing your organization, is, what is around that and thinking about your workplace more as in the neighborhood, rather than maybe just that floor that you work on itself? Certainly, the way that we're seeing buildings and rejuvenated developments heading as well as can we bring those amenities close to us? Maybe they're not inside our workplace itself. But they are things that will help the quality of that workplace and experience for the people working there, and boost up more.

 

The report mentions that there's a kind of sweet spot emerging in terms of occupation in offices of being between 60 and 80% of the week. Firstly, does that mirror your own personal work patterns, and of your colleagues in Hassell? And secondly, how do you think this kind of hybrid approach will affect workplace design, both in terms of interior spaces and in terms of buildings more generally?

 

Yeah! I mean, the world of design, you know, at Hassell we're definitely a team-based organization. You know, there are no hero designers in our world; one person doesn't do it all. We're only as good as our team. So, I think for that factor, and the fact that I'm an interior designer and our projects are really moving faster, I think that 60 to 80% is probably correct. That time is not necessarily always physically in the office, either. We're much more back face to face with our clients. We're obviously on site, or we’re out perhaps visiting other sites as well. So, it's a pretty active workforce in the fact that we're moving around a lot. But there are certainly ebbs and flows in projects, and there are times when focus and concentration and generation, maybe, of that kind of research piece, you know, might need that focus and attention that maybe is better suited to some home environments than the workplace. But it's been a great year for us, I think. We've moved our own office in the last year and a half. And it's so wonderful to see our new space becoming alive and active again; our pinboards are full, you know, bake-offs are happening… (laughs). And so, the activity is back, and it's feeling good. But I think, I guess in terms of maybe the wider world and what we're experiencing with our clients, I think this is what everyone's grappling with. It's a very hard thing to answer in terms of when you're looking for space for 10 or 15 years in the future, what that might look like. And I think what's really interesting about the days of the week that are peaking troughing as general trends is that we're starting to see maybe larger-scale organizations or organizations that occupy a whole building, looking to actually shut off some floors during those low peak times of the week. So, understanding that we can’t probably find an activity that fits into that, you know, maybe Monday, low peak time slot. But actually, we could say, still in that operational cost. So, no loss in landlord rents at all. But some savings...

 

So, you don't think you don't think a trend might be that companies might just simply require less space?

 

I think what's interesting is when you look at what an organization wants to do at those peak times and bring people together for either creativity, innovation, workshops, training, celebrations, you know, what does that look like for an organization? It certainly can work for a lot of organizations where maybe a lot their workforce is remote. We're working with Sky at the moment, and they have a lot of content creators that can be based on site; they might be filming or in production roles that are off-site, and they only come into the workplace one day a week. I think it really is about understanding what's behind that organization where they're moving forward, and how they want that employee experience to be curated. So not one answer fits all, unfortunately, but I think that factor of trying to bring everyone together, understanding that there is some kind of glue and magic that happens when we're together is a lot of the driver for maybe NOT reducing space at the moment.

 

So: final question. What did you find to be the most surprising finding in the report?

 

I think there's a lot of things that we intuitively know, by gut. And I think a lot of the data has maybe been able to make that a bit more real. I think there's a really interesting link in this document between the level of engagement and that is literally measured by how many days in the office, you are in. That that is linked to a sense of trust, with all that going up at the same time as engagement. And then we also saw the feeling of belonging going up in association with that engagement and trust.  I think seeing that actually in a figure is a really powerful tool when we're starting to talk to clients, and where they want to see themselves going in the future. I think when we can actually see that data in front of us, and not just feel it, or maybe experience it ourselves. You know, then it's not just a case of being your own echo chamber. (laughs) But it actually becomes a tool to be able to use in design.

 

Well, thank you for running through this; It's a fascinating report. I hope your Bake-Off challenges are good ones. What's your particular baking forte? Are you in this challenge?

 

Ooh. Well, I'm an Australian in this world, so I am introducing my colleagues to the world of rumbles…

 

Rumbles! Right. 

 

Yeah.

 

I don't even know what that is.

 

A mixture of biscuits, chocolate, coconut, and some Australian rum... 

 

Oh, Wow! Okay, right. I'm off to go and find some! Thank you very much, Catherine. That’s brilliant. Thanks for going through that report. 

 

Thanks David! Have a good day!