Ziona Strelitz interview with David Taylor

Editor, NLQ and New London Weekly

Director
ZZA Responsive User Environments

David Taylor catches up with Founder Director of ZZA Responsive User Environments, Ziona Strelitz, to talk about returning to the office, how they might look and function, the place of tall buildings, and an optimistic forecast on the ‘rosy prospect’ for London in the next 18 months

David Taylor: Hi Ziona! How are you?

Ziona Strelitz: I’m good, how are you?

DT: Very good, thank you. I wanted to chat to you because obviously you've been a long-time observer of trends in office environments, and I wondered if you could bring us up to speed about what you think are the key trends emerging at the moment, particularly in the light of wellbeing issues that have arisen from the pandemic - and perhaps new ways of thinking that have resulted from that?

ZS: So: I think that the pandemic has not raised any new issues, but has just intensified issues and trends that were observable, and which I thought were the right way to go for quite a long time. For me, the biggest issue is how we define quality. And I think the key for me in that is where scale sits. I think it is mostly about scale and the typological expressions of bigger and smaller buildings. So, yes, I think that we will continue to have organisations that believe for the reasons that they best know as operators that they require big buildings.

I think the challenge will come for the next couple of years at least, and possibly after that, to vertical scale. Because the kinds of porosity that I think that people have wanted and enjoyed for a long time and that COVID has accentuated… I think that is challenged by vertical scale. You know, if you have to get up in a lift, and once you start to have low occupational densities in lifts, it starts to challenge the whole efficiency proposition for the developer. And it starts to question – if you don't have it – the comfort in use for the user.

Now, a while back I did a study for the BCO on: would occupiers be happy with tall buildings, just after 9/11. There was really no discernible negative impact in occupier’s views about that. You know, the Twin Towers did not topple confidence in the towers at Canary Wharf.

But I think that what we've had now is such a wholesale experience of people who were not previously allowed to work remotely or who didn't feel entitled or empowered to work remotely, now having experienced it. Every client organisation I've worked with for some two decades has always had a proportion of its people working remotely. You know, you'd go on a Monday or a Friday and there'd be no one there. Hello? And they'd say: well, it's Monday or Friday – you should come on a Wednesday. And if you went on Wednesday you might be lucky to see 60% occupancy.

I think the fact that so many people have now experienced it will mean that more people will continue to work remotely for some of the time. The figure that was quoted by Debo (of Deloitte) this morning (at State of the Market webinar during LREF Investment Summit) on the expectation that [remote working] would be at around 27% - is a lot more than we have been hearing. But notwithstanding that, I think there's going to be a really lusty desire to get back to offices. And so I think that the question that excites me is: what will a quality office environment be like? What will be its attributes? I have been very fortunate to work with certain clients - no one has to work with me, you know, I'm not a lawyer that you need…

DT: (laughs) You are self-selecting, in a sense!

ZS: Yeah! People have always wanted to work with me because they want to do things better. So even in lockdown I've worked with a client – Derwent – on a big scheme that they want to be really good, and they are a wonderful client to work with. They are just so searching about thinking critically and getting it as right as they can. I think that there will be undiminished confidence about offices. I think the question will be what a quality office is.

The strands that I see are about environmental quality; about ease of access; about cultural mix; about health and wellbeing. And a lot of those qualities are more easily achieved and more easily perceivable in smaller-scale propositions. What I mean by smaller scale is not necessarily a smaller floorplate, but it is, I think, a less extremely tall building.

DT: Yes

ZS: I did the expert assessment for NLA in the Workplace category this year and there was such a wide range of propositions, but there was a very, very notable concentration of bottom-up design. Smaller scale, some of them in less hot land value location, still pretty close to the CBD including the scheme that won. The others were more modest in visual impact…

DT: …So do you hold with the notion then that there will be a new generation of ‘third spaces’, as it were? Places that aren't quite in the centre, but are places where people can escape the home? Remind me of your quip about the person who said they wanted to go back to the office for the sake of their health…

ZS: Oh yes! I happened for a personal reason to call a government department the other day and I just had the feeling that the guy answered by referencing material in the office. So I said: ‘are you actually in a physical office?’, and he said ‘yes, I have been since last week. I had to be working here for mental health reasons! I just cannot stand working at home anymore!’

DT: (laughs)

ZS: And you know that chimes with me absolutely, because in the teens I did this big study which I called Why place still matters in the digital age – the report is still downloadable from our website – and it is definitive. It was based on a massive online sample but also close to 90 face-to-face interviews in the UK, Paris, New York, Hong Kong and Mumbai. The driver of the pitch was: what was going on around the periphery of big conurbations where you have the kind of extreme commuting factor that we've all known in London. I knew that places already existed like workplace hubs in Watford, Chelmsford, whatever, as well as in places like London Bridge. And so we did all of these interviews and we found that people really wanted to be close to home or closer to home, but they couldn't work at home; they needed to get over the psychological barrier of moving from pyjamas to a kind of work mindset.

That was very, very clear, even then. And that applies as well to people choosing the kind of space they want to go to. Since then, we've had this massive efflorescence, an explosion of spaces where people can work on a paid-for or free basis. I think the interesting thing will be what happens to the municipal spaces that have been freely offered, like the Royal Festival Hall, the Barbican etc, as these institutions are going to be facing such short-term financial hurdles. There’s a question: are they going to try to monetise that civic benefit? I have felt so proud to live in a city where it's been so wonderfully bestowed. The British Library were absolute pioneers in saying: come and use this as workspace.

DT: Maybe they will charge for Wi-Fi access; maybe that's the way they'll do it.

ZS: Well, interestingly, I think that Wi-Fi access is just going to very quickly become a ubiquitous freebie

DT: Yeah

ZS: Because I think that the inequality surrounding broadband access for poorer families during COVID has had such a pronounced impact, and I think something has to be done about it. It's been quite publicised in the press, so I think that cities that have wanted to get ahead have offered free broadband for a long time. The marginal cost of the city doing it I think is so small for the benefit

DT: So: last question, because we’re just about out of time, but it's a hard one, this. Do you have a timeline prediction for the city going forward in terms of office occupation and general life? What are your thoughts about the next year? Have you got a tentative notional timeline in your mind?

ZS: I do. I think that there are people who are raring to get back, and as we saw in that interval between the first lockdown and the Tier 3 for London, it became very buzzy, very quickly. I think there will be a period where musical chairs are taking place and where, very heartbreakingly, some businesses will not be able to resuscitate, particularly in the service economy; you know, the sandwich shops and the dry cleaners, and many of them family-owned businesses.

But there will be other entrants and the exciting reality about times of disruption is that there are always opportunities for other entrants. It’s winners and losers, and my heart goes out to all the people who going to be losers. I think if it hits you at a certain stage in your business or personal life cycle, you'll probably never come back – but there are all of these people who are percolating ideas and enthusiasm and energy, and they will populate these spaces. So I feel that there will be a change of faces and there will be some retention of faces. I think we will get a new mix, but I think that, once we're allowed to re-populate our city, I would say that in a year to 18 months, we will have a thriving situation.

DT: Good! That's a really optimistic note to end on - and I hope you're right!

ZS: I hope I’m right too! I mean, I walked around St Pancras station one day this week and it broke my heart. Apart from it being like a ghost town, there were clear signs of evident permanent closures. But, you know, occupancy costs have been very high, and if it creates entry opportunities for other participants, that's very exciting.

We just have to move forward – and it's really interesting how the sentiment can change quite fast. I think it's interesting how the sentiment towards the UK and government has changed over the weekend, because of the vaccine ‘’tennis match’. We all have a role, and actually I think this is a really good note to end on. I think we all have a role in leading market sentiment positively, because it does make a difference. You can give people the courage to participate and the enthusiasm to participate or when they are feeling doubtful you can reinforce it. And it’s just not my way. I think there is a lot of rosy prospect, and I hope that collectively we can all help shape it.

DT: Lovely! thanks Ziona. it's great to speak to you again, and I'll speak to you soon cheers

ZS: Okay, cheers David. Bye!

David Taylor

Editor, NLQ and New London Weekly

Ziona Strelitz

Director
ZZA Responsive User Environments