Hi Chris. How are you?

 

Very well, David. Yourself? 

 

Very good, thank you. I wanted to first congratulate you on your new role as head of sustainability and decarbonisation at Avison Young UK. That title is interesting. Usually, firms just stop at sustainability. The ‘decarbonisation’ part is an extra as far as I can see; there are not many that use that extra terminology. Can you unpack that title a bit and also let me know what your key role is, broadly?

 

Yes, sure, David. I think the sustainability title is quite a well-worn one, especially part of ESG, but I was really keen with my job title for it to be sustainability and decarbonisation, because ultimately, the commitments that are being made by businesses, by governments, etc, around Net Zero are to do with decarbonisation, be it 2035 for the grid, or 2050 for the UK. I wanted something that resonated with our clients. But also an area that I have lots of experience from, from my time at Tesco, is decarbonising their estate from a Scope one and two perspective. So: how do you electrify? How do you set up the infrastructure for electrification? And how do you move from gas to electric in terms of heating? That's why I was really keen to have that decarbonisation piece as well.

 

That's interesting. Do you think people are jaded when it comes to that term? Do they look over it and need a bit more pointedness, which this gives them?

 

I don't think they're necessarily jaded by sustainability. There's a lot in the news at the moment around ESG and the connotations around that term, but sustainability is so broad. There's so much that you can put into it. Banks have a head of sustainability. Retailers have a head of sustainability. You know, owner operators have sustainability, and it means many different things to many people. So, the decarbonisation bit, I think, just takes it back to the built environment a little bit in terms of some of what the built environment needs to do over the years ahead.

 

So, take me back to Tesco, and how the two roles will differ.

 

I spent 12 years at Tesco, client side. So, when you then move to consulting, it is a bit of a shock to the system – a wonderful shock to the system... 

 

...in what way?

 

I think that it's the scale of Tesco. I mean, Tesco was an absolute behemoth. In the final three years of my role there, I was head of energy and engineering for the group. So that was five countries, 5000 properties, and over 180 million square foot of real estate. 

 

Wow!

 

That's a very large organisation. But ultimately, when it is an organisation of that scale, sometimes it's quite nimble as a retailer, but just making decisions, making some of those changes, take a little while, and then you go somewhere like Avison Young, which is very, very nimble. You're given a lot of accountability to make some decisions, to move forward with some of those propositions yourself. At Tesco, you were part of an enormous team, whereas Avison Young is a much smaller, tighter-knit group. So, there's a load of differences, but the first month that I've been in the role has been absolutely fantastic.

 

What have you discovered so far?

 

I think it's that absolute laser focus on the client. When you're client side, you never really think of this. But when you then move to an organisation like Avison Young, where every conversation, every idea, it's: how does that benefit the client? What can we do for the client? What are the client's problems? How can we solve them? Just that absolute focus. It's been quite intoxicating if I'm honest, David, just to get into a room and problem-solve and come up with these different ideas and propositions that we can do for our clients. It's been like a bit of a drug. It's been a wonderful, wonderful first four or five weeks.

 

In the blurb about your move, there's lots of talk about an 'output-oriented approach'. And also, your work previously at Tesco was described as 'results-driven'. Is this a key focus for you in the years ahead, in terms of accountability?

 

Yes, it is, absolutely, I think that there's a lot of very, very capable organizations out there that tell you what you need to do. There's countless companies and consultants, etc, who will tell you what you need to do. But with my experience, it's then: how do you do that?  Not just what you need to do, but how you go about doing that. So, I've been on that journey. I have done an awful lot of this work in my previous organisation. So how can I work with clients to actually take them on that journey, step by step, and share with them what probably very few people can, because very few people have actually been on that journey to the extent of an organisation like Tesco.

 

What's your view on the British construction and property sector's approach and ability in this particular area? How is it doing at the moment?

 

I think that there's an awful lot of appetite there, and I think everyone knows, again, what they need to do, David. I think that some of the challenges that we'll face – I think power is going to be one of the biggest challenges, because ultimately, anything around sustainability, decarbonisation, moving from gas to electric, you're going to need the power to do it. So, I think that we're going to see power at the forefront of more and more conversations in future, in terms of what we want to do in cities. When big developers are going to look at logistics and where they put them and how they develop them, the power that does that – I think that is going to be a conversation at the forefront of a lot of people's minds and conversations for many years to come.

 

Obviously, on the news climate change is ever present, isn't it? Even last week with the horrific floods in Spain, it's at the centre of people's minds. But is it central enough, do you think? What would it take for people, certainly in this country, for them to take the environment a lot more seriously? 

 

I think we're seeing it. I think we're seeing that tide and that change, David. Climate resilience is a phrase that you're hearing more and more about now. People are asking more about it, and I think especially in the UK, I know we had those couple of days last year when we had the 40-plus temperatures, but I think it's the flooding that we're getting in the UK with a little more regularity, that people are latching on to. And I think that consumers are latching onto it as well. We're seeing that more and more eco-conscious consumers are choosing where they shop and how they shop, and how they go about their business. So, I think that tide is turning, and that will only increase more and more. But yes, climate resilience is a phrase that we're hearing more and more, and that is on the back of what we're seeing in the UK, and the awful flooding that we saw in Spain as well.

 

So, last question: what is the key challenge for you going forward in your role advising these firms in this area?

 

I suppose the first thing is, since starting in the role, there's a fantastic appetite from the business and our clients. So that's a pretty good place to start. I think it's taking this view that we don't want to run before we can walk. It's all too easy to go: where do I need to be in 2030, 2035? I think sometimes when you look at the scale of that journey, it can almost cause paralysis. So: how do we chunk that down into a number of different steps along the way? And what's step one? What's step two? What's step three? And then just work with clients to build that confidence, build that capability, and then just take them on that journey and actually to get them to start it. Because I think one of the problems in the past, David, is that if you look at the end game, sometimes it will cause paralysis in terms of starting. So, let's make a start so that we can actually all move on that journey together.

 

Excellent. Well, thank you very much for explaining all that, and good luck with both huge missions – sustainability and decarbonisation!

 

Really appreciate your time. David,

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Thanks. Bye.