David Taylor: Hello, guys. How are you doing?  

Gavin Miller: Very well, thanks. 

David Taylor: Good. It’s a while since I came and visited you and interviewed you – I think eight years. So: I wanted to get a handle on where you’ve been since then, in terms of transitioning from your old identity to the new. I mean, obviously you’re well established as MICA now, but the new book that you’ve just brought out – Rick Mather: The Complete Works by Kester Rattenbury – makes me wonder about that. Do you want to talk about the book, why you’ve done this, and how you’ve been as a practice in the interim? 

Stuart Cade: Yes. We wanted to – and are delighted to – commission the book. It was a wish for Rick to have a monograph that covered lots of projects that hadn’t been published. We chose to make that a life story of Rick, going all the way back to the beginning in Oregon, all the way through to the work in the UK. We thought and talked about doing that soon after Rick died, and it’s transpired that the benefit of 10 years or more between his passing and the publication has given us that perspective. Kester has come at this, done such wonderful research, and produced this narrative of his life and the work of the office from the beginning all the way through to those latter projects. We had the support of Rick’s trustees – the trustees of his estate – and it’s been a real privilege to go back and bring out lots of things that people remember Rick for, but also some other projects that he’s less well known for. 

Gavin Miller: Yes, and I think also it’s a reflection and celebration of Rick’s life, but also, I guess, drawing a line to a new chapter as well. When Rick died, there were some projects that we finished which were very much in his hand, and really that’s where the book ends – with the completion of very “Rick” projects. Obviously, the MICA projects since then we’re saving maybe for another book or another day. We feel we’re very happy with where we are and how we’ve evolved, and it feels a nice time to celebrate that difference. We obviously learnt a lot from Rick – he’s very much in our ethos – but at the same time we feel we’ve moved on, and it’s a nice way to celebrate both practices in slightly different ways, but at the same time. 

David Taylor: What did you learn from this research period into the book, and indeed, what – if anything – surprised you? 

Gavin Miller: I guess it’s a reminder. Stuart and I worked very closely with Rick for many years. We both joined in the mid to late ‘90s, so we had a long time with him and were very much aware of all his earlier work. But it was a lovely journey for us to rediscover Rick in more detail – his earlier projects, family anecdotes, anecdotes from colleagues. It brought him back to us, in a way, and reminded us of his obsessions – wonderful obsessions – his fastidiousness, his obsession with efficiency and detail, and the rigour he applied. 

Stuart Cade: And there were some nice surprises from the period before the ‘90s, before we joined. His work is so broad – so prolific – across so many different eras. Restaurants: really amazing restaurants in London and across the world. He designed a PassivHaus in Canada in the 60s, before the term was even invented, and that’s a really important part of the beginning of the book. There are lots of things that we’ve been able to bring out. 

David Taylor: The environmental aspect – he was something of a pioneer, wasn’t he? 

Gavin Miller: Yes, very much so. And I think, hopefully, this book allows him to be repositioned or really celebrated for that, because he was very much a pioneer. He really did pioneer passive design principles and what is now PassivHaus, low-energy design. At that time, his aesthetic was obviously very considered, and if you look at similar schemes of that period, people tended to celebrate or over-exaggerate the architectural qualities of the environmental devices. Rick just saw them as inherent in the architecture. So: they were never overplayed architecturally, which in some ways has maybe led to that work being underappreciated. Hopefully, this book resets the position and presents the holistic view he had about architecture and the environment going back decades. 

David Taylor: So, back to you as a practice, then. What have you been up to, in essence, in that eight-year period? 

Stuart Cade: (laughs) Well, lots of things! We’ve expanded. We’ve expanded things we were doing and continued things we were doing before. We’re doing cultural work – significant cultural work – and considerable education work. We’ve taken our reputation in Oxford to Cambridge, and we have a number of major projects in Cambridge at the moment. That has taken us overseas as well, so we’re working for an Ivy League institution at the moment, which will be public knowledge in a couple of weeks’ time. That’s very exciting. And overseas, we’re doing international schools. 

Gavin Miller: Yes, we’ve done a school in India. We’re doing schools in Nigeria, Kenya, in Asia as well. We feel we’ve extended our reach. Rick being American, we did and do work in America, but we now feel we’ve gone more international and have a broader reach. We’re really excited by what’s coming from that and the opportunities that are coming through, and we feel very positive about the future. 

David Taylor: And you became a B Corp, I think? 

Gavin Miller: Yes, we did. 

David Taylor: How was that, and has that borne fruit? 

Stuart Cade: It’s something that Gavin and I feel very strongly about, but it also comes from the voices in the office. It’s a studio environment, and there’s a strong opinion in the office about how we should do our work and what we should support – to be progressive, to lead our environmental work. It’s been great, and it makes us look at things. Going back to the Rick point, we continue that efficiency point. We hate waste, both in what we do, how we do it, and what we design – that’s very much a Rick thing. We’ve employed our own in-house engineer to do sustainability and MEP work to help us improve further our design work and to help us work with other engineers, giving us an insight into that. It’s quite innovative and unique for our scale, we think. It runs through everything that we do. 

David Taylor: And of course, you’ve won this very exciting National Gallery project. Can you talk to me about that? You’re working alongside Kengo Kuma, I think, and BDP. 

Gavin Miller: That’s right. 

David Taylor: Tell me more about that. 

Gavin Miller: Obviously, we were delighted to win. The team is: the creative lead is Kengo Kuma, we’re the design lead, and the delivery lead is BDP. But we are all one – it’s all one team – and it’s a really exciting project. It’s in early stages. We’ve just completed Stage 1 and are starting Stage 2 now. It’s tremendously exciting and a wonderful opportunity. And I’m afraid I’m old enough to remember the “carbuncle” speech. (laughs) 

David Taylor: Of course – which was the Sainsbury Wing thing, wasn’t it? 

Gavin Miller: That’s right, or the pre-Sainsbury Wing. So just to be involved in a building of this scale and significance is wonderful. It’s very much a collaborative endeavour, building on the vision from Kuma. 

David Taylor: Has it got any Royal eyes looking at it this time, do you know? 

Gavin Miller: (laughs) As far as we’re aware, it has been shown, yes. 

David Taylor: Ah, really? Interesting… 

So, moving on, lastly, I just wondered – having chatted to a few people at LREF about market conditions – what’s it like out there from your perspective in terms of London and the UK, design and building? 

Stuart Cade: Well, I think, as Gavin said at the beginning, we’re positive. We are positive. We’re seeing opportunities. The majority of our work is still in the UK; we’re almost approaching a third of our work being overseas, so that’s something we’ve definitely evolved in this last period, particularly as MICA. That has helped us. We’ve always been quite diverse in our work – doing masterplans, smaller projects, education, cultural work. We’ve always wanted to retain that breadth, partly to stay busy in more difficult times. Looking back at the legacy – as Rick Mather and MICA, we’re over 50 years old – we’ve learnt, coming into the office, how to stay busy and survive in difficult times, and how to develop new workstreams and sectors. So yes, I think we’re positive. 

Gavin Miller: Yes, I think that’s true. But, having said that, we’ve had to adapt, because there’s no denying that in our experience we’ve done in the past a lot of residential work, and it’s very thin on the ground at the moment for us. Commercial work too – we completed Centre Point for Almacantar in central London and have done commercial work, but we’re very conscious that we’re seeing a downturn in that, and we’ve had to adapt. We’re old enough to have been through quite a few recessions and so on, and it’s always been a thing about the office: we’re a medium-sized office, but it’s key to keep that diversity and be nimble, to respond to market changes. That’s always something we’ve had to bear in mind and respond to. It’s not easy. 

David Taylor: No. Well, good luck with everything. When’s the book out exactly? 

Stuart Cade: It was published the day before yesterday, so it’s just out. There’s a book launch at the AA on 14 October. 

David Taylor: Great. 

Gavin Miller: Should be a good party! 

David Taylor: I’ll see you there – and let’s not leave it another eight years before seeing you again. Thanks, guys. Thanks for everything. 

Stuart Cade: Cheers. 

Gavin Miller: Bye.