Hi, Paul. How are you doing?

 

Good, thank you. 

 

Good. I wanted to first ask you to introduce your firm to our readers who may not know what you do. What is your main line of work?

 

Yes, thanks; we are Zest. We're a charge points operator. Our primary shareholder, if you like, is the UK Investment Bank. So, we're wholly funded via the CIIF Fund, which is the Charging Infrastructure Investment Fund. What we are trying to do - our mission - is to democratize EV charging. So, our business is that we install the infrastructure, the asset, the charge points; it's a public network, so we don't do domestic. So, it's helping the cause to help transition to EV by installing the EV charging infrastructure across the UK.

 

And how would you say we are doing on that, as a nation? Are we behind the rest of Europe, for example, or the rest of the world?

 

We're not behind the rest of the world. I mean, certainly Northern Europe has done very well; they've been doing it a little bit longer than us. But I mean, if you look at other parts of Europe - Spain, Italy, we're probably quite a way ahead of them. But I guess as a country, the forecast is that we will need between 250,000 to 650,000 chargers by 2030/2035. We currently have 50,000. At the current rate of deployment - we currently deploy as an industry around 16,000 chargers a year - we would be short of the minimum amount of chargers that we need, probably by around 50,000. Now, in terms of scaling that up, there's a challenge around that, because there's only so many hardware manufacturers of EV kit. There's only so much supply chain that you can deploy. So, to be able to scale up to the level that we need is actually going to be quite challenging. We've got to keep motoring on, excuse the pun (laughs) But, where we are, as a nation, we're behind track. Where we are as a country, we're not leading, but we're not flagging. We are doing all right in the UK. And the good thing is there's quite a lot of investment from government.

 

What are the main challenges in terms of finding sites, for example?

 

So, if we split it into a kind of public and private sector, the main challenge with the public sector is just the pace of the procurements. They are taking a long time to come to market. And then, once they come to market, just to get the final decision. And then once you have the decision, the governance that's required to actually start putting chargers in the ground, the planning, the prep, bay suspensions, Section 50 notices. It does take on consultation, it does take quite a bit of time to actually then start deploying. But I think the biggest challenge is just the pace. The opportunities aren't coming to market. Hackney came to market – really ambitious – and just said look, at the outset, we want a world-leading network. Other authorities are coming to market a little bit less ambitious; only a small number of chargers for now. But actually, for me, you want to go big.

 

In terms of the next five years in this sector, what do you foresee? I'm thinking especially of perhaps a possibly greener government coming in, because the green noises from the current establishment are less than we expected, I would venture.

 

They are. I think much of the same, to be honest. So, although the 2030/2035 debacle happened, that shouldn't slow down the rollout of EV. Because actually, 22 of the main car manufacturers have already committed to 2030.  I don't know why they did it, but they did it. But it shouldn't slow it down. It may slow the uptake of EV down, but the ultimate end goal I think will stay the same. I think over the next five years, we'll see the public charging infrastructure really start to grow. I think a lot of local authorities in London and outside of London are already starting to demand it. If we look at what the NHS are doing, a lot of companies have car policies that have got to be EV only or public transport; the demand will start to increase pretty rapidly, which will create the urgency that probably isn't quite there yet within local authorities. 

I noticed that from your website that City Hall's just awarded you contracts for a further 51 sites for rapid charge points. And I wondered if there's a disparity between London and the rest of the country in terms of adoption. Is there a difference?

 

There is. It is fair to say that the London boroughs, TfL are really taking the march when it comes to EV infrastructure, and it is no surprise that the majority of EV infrastructure is in London right now. It's disappointing, because you want the rest of the UK, when you look at levelling up, to kind of try and match that. But then again, it's not surprising. It's the capital city. Look at the demographics in London, and it's probably where the utilization is going to be, before other areas of the UK. But it is taking the march and that is good to see, it's good to see that London are doing well. London boroughs, most of the contracts that we see, and actually a lot of them are coming from the London boroughs. We have got contracts elsewhere, but certainly not to the scale and the ambition of London.

 

I wondered how you stood on the notion that electric cars aren't the absolute greenest form of transport insofar as they do still pollute, they have batteries, which are difficult to reuse and emit toxic fumes, and presumably, quite a lot of the electricity used to power electric vehicles is generated from non-renewable energy sources. Do you have a view on that in terms of how green this really is?

 

I do. I mean, there's no getting around the embedded energy in terms of manufacturing process is more in an EV than it is in an internal combustion engine. However, the point on energy being used, I mean, all the energy that that we use, is Rego certified. So, it's all renewable. 

 

Is it? Right. 

 

Yes. Yeah. I think the majority of charge point operators probably are going to be doing the same, or certainly the larger charge point operators; it will be renewable energy I think that 40% of the electricity in the UK is renewable now. That's the latest stat. So, there's that element, and that's only going to improve. That's just going to get better and better. I think in terms of the whole-life carbon emitted from an EV, yes, there are obviously some concerns around the mining. But roughly on the average mileage, they say, after two years, the carbon emitted is lower than if it was an internal combustion engine. But I think you've also got to look at the health benefits as well.  Is it a defence to say oh well, it doesn't matter because the carbon is being emitted elsewhere? But if you look at the fumes, to use your terminology, you are removing all that from urban areas. They're not polluting anything when they're in the town centres or city centres. So, the health benefits are massive for this, actually. And certainly, we look at London, and we look at the damage that the internal combustion engine has been doing to people walking up and down the street, and people working in the offices. It will eradicate that. So, the benefits are there. They can't be disputed.

 

Oh, great! Excellent, I'm convinced! (laughs) Last question, because we're just up to time. I wondered about your own driving habits. Presumably, you've got an electric car?

 

I do. 

 

What have you got?

 

So, my first electric car was a Nissan LEAF Mark One. That was old battery technology, and it has 90,000 miles on the clock. And it's still - it has lost two bars of its 11. So, I mean, that goes to show you that batteries do last. And that's old technology. I've now got a VW ID Five, which will do...

 

What is that? Is that an SUV? 

 

SUV, yeah, a family SUV. In summer it will do 280 miles (laughs). In winter it does slightly less…

 

Because of the heating required in the car, which is a drag?  

 

Yeah, but also the battery temperature. In the cold, the battery isn't as efficient. So, in winter, you will lose about 20% of the range. But 90% of journeys are under 100 miles. 

 

So do your charging points have a bigger load required in winter, then? Are they used more?

 

Yes, I mean, they will be. With the network shown it's difficult just in terms of seasons. So, again, a lot of our charge points are in shopping centres, so you have got more people coming in for Christmas shopping. So, it aligns with the number of visitors. But yes, in winter, you will need more energy because the battery isn't as efficient. 

 

Well thank you very much for this. I'm going to go off and have a look at some websites for my next car purchase, as an inspiration

 

Brilliant!

 

Excellent! Thanks for your time, Paul. 

 

Thanks a lot! Bye!