David Taylor catches up with Camden Town Limited Chief executive Simon Pitkeathley to talk about how its new map aims to reframe and regenerate his area, how BIDs are changing London, and how the Highline is nearing reality.

David Taylor  

Hi, Simon. How are you doing?

 

I'm good. Nice talk to you.

 

And you. I wanted to talk to you about this Green Loop Map that you've launched, which is printed – which seems quite old school these days – but also online and updatable. What's the reasoning behind it? Why have you done this?

 

Well, I should just clarify it's a Footways, physical printed thing. And then the Green Loop is the concept behind what we're doing. We, as a Business Improvement District, like to think of ourselves as being sort of slightly off centre, if you like. We tend to do less of that janitorial staff and try and do more of that big vision kind of thing. So we're trying to build the Camden Highline, we've got our thing called Camden Collective, where we give away free space to actually 1000s of young creative start-ups. And so we're sort of occupying a business improvement district space in a slightly different way. And having traditionally thought about town centres in the way that we do, I think we've recognised that we are sort of sitting in a weird cluster of town centres: Camden Town, Kings Cross and Euston, and that a virtual route around those three town centres and Regent's Park – effectively a four mile circuit, not using main roads, might be an interesting way to think about how those town centres connect or don't to each other, and the communities around them. And to use it really as the basis of green interventions, that lots of our partners can get involved in to kind of promote it as a concept and as a physical walk. That make sense?

 

It does. And you've done this by going to the community, in a way, and asking them about their particular walkways and routes that they like, to populate the map. Is that right?

 

Very much so, yeah. So we've done a lot of workshops, we've tried to kind of reach maybe beyond the usual suspects, try and pull out people that wouldn't normally come to those sort of things. Sometimes we find that, you know, we will pay for some people to come along because their time is valuable, too. So, yeah, we've tried to do that sort of rather deeper engagement than perhaps is normal in that sort of consultation and really reflect the conversations in what we do. But it also of course, involves finding businesses and other organizations on the route that can make physical interventions as well. So, it's quite a broad consultation.

And is it in a way trying to distort – well, not distort but change – people's perceptions of scale and accessibility across the area?

 

Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's an interesting notion when we, you know, people get very exercised about the idea of the 15-minute city. But, you know, there is something about: what is a locality? What is an area? If you have electric scooters how much bigger is that area than the pedestrian might occupy? So yeah, it's an attempt to think a bit more expansively about areas beyond just the town centres. It's quite easy to get focused on town centres. But they fit in a context. So, it's trying to recognize that and see what we can bring to life around.

 

Because I was thinking about the tube map, and how that, in a way is problematic in terms of people's perceptions of distance, although it's a classic of its type, of course. But it sort of distorts London, in some ways. Is it a similar thing going on here?

 

Well, I think it's similar in two ways, actually. One is you're right, it's sort of trying to undistort the proximity of places and make them aware. But also we draw it as a circle, when in fact, it isn't. Much like the tube map that you see, in reality, it's a whole series of jiggly lines. So yes, I think we are sort of trying to unmask the simplistic or oversimplified version of it and understand complexity whilst also making it something people can easily visually understand.

 

And so how is the Highline getting along? What's the latest state of play?

 

The Highline is doing very well. We got planning approval in January – we're still trying to sort out some of the kind of legal stuff with Camden's legal team; just getting the section 106 signed, and, you know, the fun stuff was early on! (laughs) And it will be when we build it. We're slightly in front of just like getting all the ducks in a row piece at the moment, but it's looking good, I have to say, I think we're getting closer on the funding. And I'm optimistic we'll have it open in 2026. 

 

Excellent! You have just come back from New York, I think? Were you visiting the other Highline?

 

We were indeed. Although actually in fairness to the French, the Paris one predates New York. Promenade Plantée in Paris was there first. I like to tease them about that in America, that the French were there first. But yeah, it was a trip of various people from the London infrastructure area, there to network. Yes, it's an oft missed point that the French were there first, a bit like America – the Promenade Plantée in Paris predates the New York Highline by about 10 years, I think. So yes, New York is not the original, although it is, of course, the most well-known. We've used the same design team for the Camden Highline, as they used in the New York Highline. So there's a lot of synergies there. It was great to meet up with those people, learn more from them. But mainly, I think, really to see the impact that the New York Highline has had on New York, and to try and translate that into the sorts of impacts we think will happen in Camden and London, as a result of Camden Highline.

 

What is the remaining obstacle for London, if there is one?

 

Well, it is really funding. I mean, a lot of the fun stuff in terms of feasibility, getting the planning, doing the design, you know, all that's kind of done - although there's always more bits to do. But yeah, it's really about securing the funding now, so that we can hopefully open around 2026. There's an interesting distinction as well, when you mentioned New York, you know, that the Camden Highline is different from New York in a couple of ways. One is it is dynamic in shape. So it changes width as you go down, unlike New York, so it can be quite narrow in places; but also wider. But it's also got a live train next to it. So it'll be quite a different experience to the Highline that people are used to.

 

One last thing. You mentioned that you're slightly different from other BIDs. And you mentioned that you do less of the sort of janitorial stuff. How do you see the framework of London in terms of its emerging BIDs, and how effective they are across the city?

 

Well, I think what you're seeing with business improvement districts is a transfer of things that were once the domain of either the property owners or the public sector moving into the domain of the BIDs, which are by and large, paid for by the occupiers, the same people that pay business rates. So I think that's already happened. But I think BIDs are doing a really good job there, because – and we know this because they have to be re-elected every five years. So you have to renew your mandate, if you're not doing a good enough job, you're not going to get that. I think BIDs are great in the sense that they get that check on their effectiveness every five years. So I think that's good. But I think the broader, interesting point about that transfer of responsibility from both the public sector and the owners over to the occupiers, which I think is happening in a variety of places. It's an interesting thing to observe.

 

And do you think other BIDs could perhaps take a leaf out of your book in terms of the map that you've produced? Do you think that's something that's transferable?

 

Yeah, I don't see why not. Yeah, I think it would be interesting. I think there's a few things I think that we've done over the years that have been picked up by other BIDs, but you know, BIDs learn from each other all the time. I think what's important is that there's not a kind of cookie-cutter approach with BIDs; that they do things that are peculiar to themselves, their area, they reflect the character of the place, of their environment. Rather than just kind of like stamp the same thing in different places, that's where I think BIDs are at their strongest.

 

Yeah. Brilliant. Well, thank you very much for your time and congratulations on the new work, and I look forward to seeing the Highline when it when it arrives.  Thank you very much. Cheers Simon!

 

No worries. Nice to talk to you, David!