Hello, Ashley, how are you?

 

Hi. I'm very well, thank you. Thanks for asking me to be part of this discussion about Net Zero.

 

No problem. You've been chair of the Net Zero expert panel for NLA for over four years, and, as I understand it, a next gen. colleague is taking your place. Regarding that panel, I wanted to firstly ask you what you think, looking back over that period, have been the key outcomes and learnings from your time on it.  What kept cropping up in terms of sub-topics?

 

 

Thanks. I was pleased to be asked to be the chair for a couple of terms, and, as you say, I've got a next gen colleague, Alice Jackson, to be part of the panel. So that's good – that Hoare Lee will still have some presence. In in terms of why the expert panels are good, I found the willingness to share insights with a common goal in the built environment really rewarding.  Because the panel included people from different professions: architecture, engineering, local authorities, property developers, it was fantastic to see this willingness to share insights, perspectives, experiences on improving the acceleration towards net zero. Some of the particular outcomes that we focused on with two working groups included the need for more circularity in construction; there's a close link between net zero resource efficiency and making good with fewer resources, which circularity aims to do. So, we shared a lot of insights in a circularity working group that was part of the net zero panel. And then another working group we had was around skills and capacity in local authorities, because a number of people on the panel were involved in planning applications and realized that not all planning authorities have sufficient resources to fully interrogate a planning application from a whole life, carbon perspective...

 

Yes, or any perspective, in fact...!

 

 

Yes! We increased the membership of that working group to include some additional local authority representatives, and there was certainly a consistent request for access to expertise. We know that local authorities have had tough budgets, and planning expertise around zero carbon and climate was an emerging issue. So, I think they're some of the key things we looked at.

 

How did it operate, in terms of the objectives? Did you have goals and outcomes that you put forward for actions? What was the action process?

 

 

One of the goals was to contribute to the NLA's New London Agenda, which is a strategy that aims to pull together contributions from the expert panels and other stakeholders to give some consistent messages to policymakers in London. So, our goal there was to provide a net zero perspective, and that highlighted circularity as a key issue. That part of our output was about raising awareness of the policy opportunities and how, if we make do with less, if we can reuse existing buildings, if we can reclaim materials from one site for another site, then we can reduce carbon emissions and improve resource efficiency. Otherwise, I think outcomes were often about shared experiences and broadening the awareness of best practice. Some of it was European. What is happening in other countries? That was so that the membership of the net zero panel could use that knowledge in their work.

 

Yes, I was going to ask about the international perspective. How do you think the UK and perhaps London compares in in the move towards net zero across, say, Europe, and then the wider world?

 

London is pioneering in many ways. The London Plan is an outstanding example of a requirement in planning to assess whole life carbon and circularity, and it's really advanced the level of knowledge and endeavour in reducing embodied carbon. So, when I speak to international professionals in, for example, Australia or USA, they don't have that same level of reducing embodied carbon as an imperative. And I'm convinced that that Mayor of London’s requirement to assess embodied carbon and whole life carbon has raised their awareness of it. So, there's a lot more acceptance in London that we should endeavour to retrofit first, look at refurbishments – and indeed, some developers have said that's their priority. I think in Europe, there are also good steps, in France, Scandinavia, Germany, in terms of requiring assessments of embodied carbon. Sometimes it's more regional than national. So, London is taking the lead in many ways in terms of planning policy.

 

How do you view decisions from government such as the recent Oxford Street M&S decision, in this light?

 

Obviously, the Marks and Spencer Oxford Street proposal for repurposing gave a lot of profile to the pros and cons of demolition versus new construction and what the priority should be. I think experts realize that it's quite nuanced; that sometimes just a simple rule that you cannot demolish, you have to reuse a building, doesn't give enough allowance for the fact that some buildings will be in inherently complicated and constraining. So, the case the architect and the developer gave for significant changes to Marks and Spencer’s Oxford Street development is that it was just too difficult to try and work with the existing structure, existing floorplates, floor-to-ceiling heights. So, it was beneficial in terms of raising the profile and the arguments, and probably the outcome was the right one. I don't know the details, but I think, given the expert reviews, the development as it's proposing to go ahead probably got the right balance.

 

So, just a slight gear change: we're at the start of the year, and I wondered whether you could look to the next 12 months in this sector in terms of what we might expect as changes, if there are any that you see coming down the runway, so to speak – to use a very bad expression given the circumstances! (laughs)

 

(laughs) Well, there's a number of things, policy-wise, happening this year. We're going to see the next change of the Building Regulations, which is called the Future Buildings Standard. So obviously, a new government wants to put its own imprint on the revisions. Many in the industry wanted it to be going further, looking at building performance and potentially embodied carbon. That might not happen in this change, but that'll be really interesting to see what the new future building standard looks like. There's also government consultation on energy performance certificates. There's a call out now that's open until February asking industry on how energy performance should be measured. And I know a lot of experts in the built environment are saying it should be more about measured energy, but the EPC, as it's currently formulated, is a theoretical standard based on a construction specification. But what could really make a difference in the future for building owners and occupants and tenants is more of a measure of actual energy consumption. I think we've seen good uptake of the NABERS energy rating with leading developers. So that will change the industry interest in measured performance. Whilst it's not directly related to net zero, climate resilience needs to have more attention. We're seeing more extreme weather events, both wetter winters and hotter, drier summers, and currently, the building stock and even some new buildings are not well suited to these changes. So, I think what will happen more during 2025, is awareness of the impacts that climate change will be having on the building stock. What we need is very low carbon buildings, but also ones that are resilient to wetter winters and hotter summers. There is a UK Green Building Council Resilience Roadmap project that will be published this year that will give greater profile for the resilience roadmap.

 

Are you optimistic about all the measures that need to be taken to get towards net zero?

 

I think that we could do more...well, I'm always optimistic. I think you have to be, working in sustainability.  I think more could be done with regulation and enforcement. A lot of studies have shown that, including government funded research as well as university research, that there are still performance gaps where buildings are not performing as intended. Perhaps they're not tested and commissioned or constructed as the designers intended. So, there seems to be a recognition in the government review of planning that resources and capacity and skills in the planning system need to be boosted. So, there's room for optimism there. There's certainly a lot of interest from engineers and architects about low carbon development.

 

So finally, what next for Hoare Lea? What are you working on, Ashley?

 

We're working on some masterplanning projects, like the Earls Court Master Plan…

 

Oh, right. Well, that's really interesting!

 

Yes. That's looking at nature, biodiversity, wellbeing, climate resilience and net zero carbon. So, what's exciting about the future is that sustainable development has become multifaceted. It's about the community, without the people occupying the building, about enhancing nature, and so I'm really positive that we can see progress in that resource efficient, biodiverse future. We're also helping some clients that are being set carbon reduction targets from the investors, so I'm excited to see that metrics are being imposed by funders, and we're helping developers on the pathways to those carbon reduction strategies as a funding condition, and that gives them access to better loan conditions. So also, I think technical consultants are getting closer to the money and the people making financial decisions to hopefully achieve better outcomes for the investors as well. We at Hoare Lea will also be testing the new Net Zero Carbon Building Standard. We have already started reviewing the criteria for developers to check the implications for new development and refurbishment projects. The standard sets limits for embodied carbon and operational energy for a range of building types. We anticipate applying the standard on several projects during 2025. And that will require innovative ways of developing resource efficient buildings, and early collaboration, if we are to achieve the net zero outcomes.

 

Well, good luck with all of that. It sounds like you got a lot on your plate, Ashley – thank you for your spell on the panel! 

 

Thanks very much!