Hello, Robert, how are you? 

 

I'm good, thanks. How are you? 

 

Yeah, not bad. I wanted to talk to you about the competition that NLA and you guys have just launched in King’s Cross? Could you flesh out what that competition is for, principally? And why this process in particular? Why do you think this is the way to go about doing something like this?

 

Yeah. So, I've been conscious that we have this space. It was built as parts – two-storey premises with two separate front doors for the upper and the lower level, facing onto Beaconsfield Street. It’s part of Saxon Court, the development of mostly affordable housing by Maccreanor Lavington, built some years ago. The ground floor was originally given to one housing group to use as a sort of community space/ caretaker space. It wasn't really used to its optimum, in my view. And then the upstairs has never been fitted out. We have planning permission for a market for sale flat. So, we could fit that out and turn it into a flat and sell - it would be worth a few quid (laughs). But we're mid-pandemic and thinking about the last phase of the development now at King's Cross. And we just thought, well, is there a better plan? Is there something better we could do that will make more impact? 

I was conscious that there's quite a lot of change happening in that part of the site - we've got a big building being built now which has got more affordable housing, in it. And just through being here, we have been conscious that in the last few years, it's been a tough time for everyone. 

I am chair of the governors of the school that we set up, the King's Cross Academy and I see a range of issues through that in terms of impacts on families, from the pandemic. I discussed it with the main shareholders: Federated, Hermes and AustralianSuper and said: ‘maybe there's something better we could do with this space, that would deliver more benefit to the estate and its communities’. And actually, this is an opportunity to reach people that maybe haven't been at the forefront of benefiting from the transformation of King's Cross so far. It's not a huge space. It's about 1200 square feet. But it's what you do with that space and what you might be able to put in. It could create a new service line, a new offer, that could really make a difference to the estate, its residents and surrounding community. So that was the idea. 

The idea was partly because the space was sitting there; I was conscious that it's a valuable asset, and we should be using it. Partly, it was the pandemic and just seeing how the pandemic had affected King's Cross. And partly through the lens of my Argent and King's Cross hat, but also through the lens of the school. And just thinking look, they didn't have a chance to really open up and broaden our perspective and think about what we could do with this space. 

 

And I said to the board, are you up for do something different? Are we up for putting some money into this, if need be, to create something really compelling? To do something we haven't got on the estate that will generate something new? And they were: absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Great idea. Let's go for it. I'd seen lots of competitions recently. Okay, a lot of them are architectural, but we see lots of competitions. And, you know, the best competitions often generate ideas that you just wouldn't have yourself. I've seen NLA run various competitions and I thought this is an opportunity. We shouldn't believe that we will always have the best idea. And there are a range of experts on King's Cross from community groups and charities, you know, we put a lot of work the last few years with Camden Giving and Section 106 money has been distributed in various different ways. And there's a range of partners and programs out there. I've seen things on other projects that are really inspirational. And you think, who came up with that? Very often it wasn't the developer, it was someone else. So we just thought: now's an opportunity to bring some of that thinking in and invite people to come up with some knockout ideas. And then our job is then to grab hold of the best ones and try and make one of them happen! 

 

Do you, in a way, expect to be surprised by this process?

 

Oh absolutely.  I hope to be surprised. I hope that something will come out, not just a sponsor, or a collection of sponsors coming together, but also just in terms of the use - what could we do? I mean, various ideas have been mentioned in the briefing notes, to do with children. People talked about some kind of maker space or a creche, or homework club and so on. But what I'd like to think is something comes up that we just hadn't thought of; something different. Maybe something new that addresses the need that we just weren't even really conscious of, perhaps. Some of them on the estate have so much reach. The school does an amazing amount and the Frank Barnes school too. We've got King's Cross Recruit, Skill Centre; these facilities are not always big, but their impact is very significant. So, what we'd really like to see is something really innovative that makes the most of the space and packs a real punch in terms of social and economic impact. I don't know what it is yet. But that's the whole point of the competition - it is to come up with and find something that resonates with King’s Cross today and King’s Cross going forward. And if we find the right thing then we're prepared to back it.

 

But broadly, it's about the community; it's a community facility, principally, isn't it?

 

Yes, it's something that will have benefits locally for people who principally live but maybe also study or work in, a broader King's Cross, hopefully including our estate but also definitely wider than that.  I suspect there'll be some ideas that are around economic initiatives. There could be others that are purely social; we'll have to see what comes up. But yeah, the idea is to broaden the benefits of the estate and broaden the benefits of the ongoing transformation of King's Cross. Thousands of people – many, many people – have benefited from the ongoing change here over 20 years, which has been extraordinary, and we've been part of, but only a part, but it's quite a big part. But maybe this is a chance to benefit other groups that haven't perhaps fully benefited from the ongoing changes here. So, let's see what comes out - we're really excited about seeing what other ideas we'll have.

 

Well, it sounds like a great initiative. And, actually, is it one that other estate owners should consider? I mean, obviously, you haven't done the whole process yet and we'll wait and see, but presumably it's something you would advocate across London really? 

 

Yeah, I mean, obviously it helps. We've got a large estate; in the context of the estate as a whole this is a relatively small amount of floorspace. The premises is one thing, but I think the other part of it is what delivery structure or business plan needs to be put behind whatever idea comes out. And I think we have various tools in that. We have King's Cross estate services, a big team on that. We have estate construction skills centre, we have King's Cross Recruit. There are various bits of what we do now that we can bring to bear. So, I think we have, you know, various tools that I hope, are a part of it. So, I think we're set up to do something like this, perhaps more than if you just own one building somewhere, it probably is harder to contemplate something like this. And as i think you've touched on before with the 20 years of King's Cross and all of that this, place has really been set up to think about long term value. We've got two main institutional shareholders that have got their eye very much on long term value. And we believe this is part of long-term resilient value. We absolutely see this as directly supporting the value of the estate. And that's the mindset that allows us to contemplate something like this.

 

Magic. Well, good luck with it. I presume it will be called the Robert Evans Community centre… 

 

God, no. (laughs)

 

(laughs)

 

I think the tumbleweed might roll through. Also, I kind of hope it won't be a community centre – I mean, it might be; I'm not I'm not closing that off. But I think we already have a community centre that was part of the section 106. And that was built in the same building as the school, in the Plimsoll Building by the Somali Youth Trust. We gave the space to Camden and Camden and gave it to that charity to run. So we already have that facility, and that runs various classes and various programs. Yes, we could have another one. But, you know, in a way, the whole point of the competition is to maybe find something else that is a bit different, and maybe has a different kind of impact. But we will see!

 

Magic. Thanks for your time, Robert. That's really great. And good luck with it.

 

Thanks very much. See you soon. Bye!